2010-03-12T06:18:14Z http://blog.classof1855.com/comments/atom.aspx Quick Blogcast tag:blog.classof1855.com,2010-02-15:2829831 David Boyer 2010-02-15T16:47:01Z 2010-02-15T16:47:01Z Dear Izak,<div><br></div><div>I am very impressed with your website and I especially applaud your efforts to make changes to the traditional methods of scoring wine. I am actually fond of South Africa wine and I even very much enjoy the under-appreciated (in the US) Pinotage.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>The wine competition in South Africa is an interesting element to use in your wine scoring method. In America, I don't know of any serious wine collector or wine expert that actually takes wine competition seriously. Here it is thought of solely as a marketing tool and there are huge gaps: a winery may win a gold medal at one and not even be mentioned many others. Unlike America, it seems in your part of the world that wine competition is a real event deserving of respect.</div><div><br></div><div>Thank you for your reply and I hope you continue to work toward constructive change - it just makes the wine world a better place.</div><div><br></div><div>David</div> tag:blog.classof1855.com,2010-02-14:2826787 Izak http://www.sawineindex.com 2010-02-14T19:25:35Z 2010-02-14T19:25:35Z David,<br /><br />As you have said to Greg, "Indeed there is no perfect way to score or assess the quality of wine but I am delighted to know that you and others are considering a better solution".In South <br />Africa I have designed a system <a href="http://www.sawineindex.com">www.sawineindex.com</a> which have just been launched because of similar problems with subjectiveness. Consistency in tasting results of various different wine panels made more sence to me. Then you must also realise that my own take is simple and personal. Either like it and ask yourself if it makes you think, otherwise don't drink it. <br /><br />Izak Smit tag:blog.classof1855.com,2010-02-05:2794158 David Boyer 2010-02-06T00:17:42Z 2010-02-06T00:17:42Z Greg,<div><br></div><div>Thanks for your stellar feedback and perspective - you obviously know what you're doing with wine. Although I find it amusing that a number of people with seemingly little wine knowledge suddenly are erudite critics on Cellartracker, it was not my intent to trash the site. In fact I have a number of collector friends who are remarkably knowledgeable that frequent Cellartracker.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>I wish I had the time to sort through who on the site is a pretender and who's not but I just have not spent the time to do that. Because of the friends I have, I know you are right and that there are a number of people there that really know wine. Thanks for reminding me that this site and its members are a valuable resource.&nbsp;<br></div><div><br></div><div>David</div> tag:blog.classof1855.com,2010-02-05:2794080 David Boyer 2010-02-05T23:54:13Z 2010-02-05T23:54:13Z Hi Greg,<div><br></div><div>I admire your work on wine scores. The radar plot reminds me of ETS Labs' radar plot that is used to describe an oak barrel's flavor impact on wine. It is an eloquent solution to conveying complex information visually. Indeed the current scoring system is broken and anyone thinking about a way to ameliorate this situation is doing everyone a favor.</div><div><br></div><div>My scoring formula was derived from elements about wine that are important to me such as balance, flavor intensity, complexity, aroma, etc. and I think things like attack, mid-palate and finish are actually quantifiable. I know winemakers that actually begin counting when the wine first enters their mouth, start the count again at mid-palate, and again after swallowing or spitting. So they may have a count of something like 8 - 12 - 18 (bloody good wine probably), and relative to their count, they can make a fairly accurate assessment about the relative attack, mid-palate, and finish of any given wine. I have used this approach myself and it works quite well using&nbsp;increments of&nbsp;seconds.</div><div><br></div><div>Indeed there is no perfect way to score or assess the quality of wine but I am delighted to know that you and others are considering a better solution. These days reviewers are scraping the bottom of the barrel looking for more adjectives only to describe the same thing they have described thousands of times. It's sadly laughable and most of all useless - give us the real information we need to assess a wine, not journalistic dribble.</div><div><br></div><div>Thank you for your thoughtful response - I shall soon add your site to my blog roll.</div><div><br></div><div>Best Regards,</div><div><br></div><div>David</div> tag:blog.classof1855.com,2010-02-05:2793519 Greg http://thecabfrancofiles.blogspot.com 2010-02-05T20:15:07Z 2010-02-05T20:15:07Z I employ a complementary approach, what I'd term as a structural description:<br /><br /><a href="http://thecabfrancofiles.blogspot.com/2009/12/graphical-representation.html">http://thecabfrancofiles.blogspot.com/2009/12/graphical-representation.html</a><br /><br />I went with the radar plot since it avoids the whole numerical precision issue. The goal is to characterize with broad categories instead of to quantify or list decriptors. I do think categories such as fruit or earth can be identified, whereas cassis vs. blackberry or bell pepper vs. capsicum is a senseless distinction. There is a definite weakness, though, in that purely structural descriptions/graphs don't broach issues like balance, complexity, attack, mid-palate and finish. Complexity and balance, however, are suggested by the shape of the contour.<br /><br />There are drawbacks to quantifying finish, complexity and balance as well. These are incredibly personal impressions, so other than for one's own interest, I don't think they translate well. As I understand it, your system is designed to assign a number to quality, thus the subjectivity is not a major problem.<br /><br />Anyway, it seems there is no perfect approach! Indeed the standard tasting note is less perfect than most. tag:blog.classof1855.com,2010-02-05:2793443 Greg http://thecabfrancofiles.blogspot.com 2010-02-05T19:47:06Z 2010-02-05T19:47:06Z Excellent post. While I tend to decant young wines, it's never for an extended period of time. Because the volatile aromas are 'shifty', there's great fun in drinking a wine as it opens up over an hour or two. Those who wait hours to drink the wine undoubtedly are losing much of its character and oxidizing it.<br /><br />As you point out, wine development in bottle is essentially anaerobic. What happens with decanting is rather crude in comparison. I do think there is some benefit to it in terms of blowing off sulfites or otherwise unlocking aromatics. But this should be done by tasting, not by setting a timer and walking away for a day! If decanting has altered the tannin structure, the drinker has undoubtedly damaged the wine.<br /><br />I do think you underrate cellartracker, however. Many experienced tasters use it, and one can identify the more reliable tasters and tag them as favorites. While clearly there are idiots who abuse decanters and only like fruit bombs, they can be filtered out easily. Cellartracker users aren't wannabe wine critics so much as enthusiasts who are adding to a communal body of data. tag:blog.classof1855.com,2009-09-14:2428557 David Boyer 2009-09-15T00:15:29Z 2009-09-15T00:15:29Z Hi Larry,<div><br></div><div>Thanks for stopping by and for the wine blog suggestions, both of which are stellar. I have long been a fan of Tom Wark's blog but didn't include it because it is so industry specific (actually wine marketing specific) and thus probably not of interest to people that read my blog or garner info from the 1855 website. It's almost why I didn't put a link to The HoseMaster's site - if one has a limited understanding of wine, his blog isn't going to convey much humor but at the end of the day, it's so unique I couldn't resist.</div><div><br></div><div>Also I like Heimoff''s blog but because I don't want the skew of publishing professionals, I have not included it. I really respect him along with James Suckling and Stephen Tanzer but ultimately every wine aficionado must choose her or his own sources of information deemed reliable.</div><div><br></div><div>T<b>o anyone else reading this response:</b> Larry is the owner and winemaker at Tercero Wines from Santa Barbara county in California. His small production Rhone-type bottlings are getting <i>great reviews </i>so check him out at&nbsp;<span><a href="http://www.tercerowines.com" target="_blank">http://www.tercerowines.com</a></span>. His winery ships to states that can be legally shipped to and these types of discoveries are priceless - for me, kind of like when I discover things like Terry Hoage Syrah.</div><div><br></div><div><b>Larry, sorry, back to you</b>: thanks again for checking my site. I'll be sure to check out your wines, as I'm a huge fan of the Rhone and comparable CA wine.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers Indeed!</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div> tag:blog.classof1855.com,2009-09-14:2426494 larry schaffer http://www.tercerowines.com 2009-09-14T06:31:36Z 2009-09-14T06:31:36Z Interesting and informative list indeed . . . thanks for putting it together!<br /><br />A few more I might suggest would be Steve Heimoff's blog and Tom Wark's Fermentation blog . . .<br /><br />Cheers! tag:blog.classof1855.com,2009-09-11:2420768 aimee http://blasedesign.com 2009-09-11T17:46:35Z 2009-09-11T17:46:35Z It was our pleasure!<br />The challenge of creating a brand that stands up to the depth of information in the blog and witty intelligence of your writing was a lofty goal. tag:blog.classof1855.com,2009-09-11:2420516 Mike Veseth http://WineEconomist.com 2009-09-11T15:52:47Z 2009-09-11T15:52:47Z I'm honored to be included on your list, David. Thanks for the kind words.